Wednesday, 11 April 2012

GS: Cardinal Pell and the Holocaust!

Cardinal Pell and the Holocaust!

The below was created on April 19, 2012.
And partly emailed to Cardinal Pell at 10 am.


Daniel in the lions' den

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Daniel in the lions' den saved by Habakkuk(France, 15t century).
Daniel's age
Daniel in the Lions' Den
Peter Paul Rubens (c. 1615)
Daniel's Answer to the King
Although Peter Paul Rubens' depiction shows Daniel as a young man (top),[1] Daniel would have been over eighty years old at the time of this incident,[2] making Briton Rivière's picture (bottom) more accurate.
The story of Daniel in the lions' den is found in the sixth chapter of the Book of Daniel in theHebrew Bible, and in the lesser known story of Bel and the Dragon in the Greek versions. Danielis an official in the Persian empire under King Darius. Darius (at the instigation of his other officials) had made a decree that no-one was to offer prayer to any god or man except him for a period of thirty days. Daniel continued to pray as was his habit, and for this he was arrested and thrown into a lions' den. However, he was unharmed, and after he was released the following morning, the people who had cajoled the king into making the decree (which was for the sole purpose of getting at Daniel) were thrown into the lions' den themselves.

----- Original Message -----
From: g87
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 6:11 PM
Subject: Christians Jews and don't forget the lions!!

Memo from Geoff Seidner
I refer to my email sent earlier today to Cardinal Pell re Q and A.
It is incumbent on us to have a long memory: To wit Pell's commendations about Mel Gibson in 2004: the 7 30 Report. [ABC TV]
It may be noted  that I alluded to The Cardinal's effusive comments / commendations in the
 7 30 Report in particular in my so far unanswered email.

I am not holding my breath!

Pell has form in other media commending Mel Gibson.

Could someone pass this on to Walter Rappaport [and Joe Krycer] - he / them  who is / are  the organizer/s of Christians, Jews and Lions!!
See immediately below as well - to pass on to John Levy etc!!
Indeed anyone who thought it is a wonderful idea to join the troika!!!

One of the many commendations I received today!!
Hi Geoff
As you know, I receive your emails and am a great admirer of yours. I also watched last
night and was absolutely horrified at his reference to the German people
How dare he!!!
I wonder how he will respond..
Sent from my iPad

On 10/04/2012, at 10:00 AM, "g87" <> wrote:

Home : Features : Ecumenical and Interfaith : Meet the Council of Christians and Jews
Meet the Council of Christians and Jews Print E-mail
By Freda Kaufman

This year, the Council of Christians and Jews Victoria (CCJ Vic.) proudly celebrates its 25th anniversary. The CCJ Vic. was the first organisation in this state to foster interfaith dialogue; the earliest group to recognise the value and necessity of interfaith friendship, communication and understanding. Since 1985, attendances of 200-300 people have been the norm – surely visible recognition of the need for interaction between Christians and Jews.

On the founding panel of presidents were distinguished names such as Archbishop Frank Little, Archbishop David Penman, Rabbi Ronald Lubofsky, Rabbi John Levi, and Rev Dr J. Stewart Murray.

Australian Broadcasting Corporation
Broadcast: 25/02/2004

Critics offer their own message on Gibson's 'Passion'

Reporter: Tracy Bowden
KERRY O'BRIEN: The dramatic events which provide the touchstone of Christianity -- the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ -- have inspired a procession of Hollywood epics.

And they haven't been without controversy.

But nothing has rivalled the response to the new film, directed and bankrolled by devout Catholic, Mel Gibson - The Passion of the Christ.

Even before the movie was screened, debate focused on claims that it was anti-Semitic.

Now, as the film opens across Australia, the focus is shifted to the unflinching depiction of Christ's suffering, described by Time magazine as "the goriest story ever told".

Tracey Bowden reports on the movie and the reaction from Christian and Jewish leaders.

TRACY BOWDEN: Ash Wednesday, and Christians around the world gather to mark the first day of Lent, the 40 days leading up to the death and resurrection of Christ.

This holy day was deliberately chosen for another event -- the release of Hollywood's latest version of the very same story.

Moviegoers lined up to see actor- turned-producer and director Mel Gibson's controversial new film, The Passion of the Christ.

The film depicts the last 12 hours of Christ's life in brutal detail.

Its release has been preceded by not just heated debate, but enormous publicity.

STEPHEN CRITTENDEN, ABC RELIGIOUS COMMENTATOR: This has been the greatest pre-publicity campaign since Gone with the Wind.

It has been extraordinary.

And what they've done is they've drawn in church leaders who've been writing film reviews, they've had screenings for Protestant church communities.

They've shut the media out until the very last minute.

TRACY BOWDEN: A devout Catholic, Mel Gibson says the film is his version of what happened, according to the gospels of the New Testament.

But is the film true to the gospels?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL, CATHOLIC ARCHBISHOP OF SYDNEY: There are additions, dramatisations, but I believe that it's basically, as a work of art, it's very faithful to the gospel.
RABBI RAYMOND APPLE, GREAT SYNAGOGUE, SYDNEY: I would tend, unfortunately, to disagree because when I look at the story as the film presents it, I have so many questions.

TRACY BOWDEN: Leaders from Australia's Jewish and Christian communities, Rabbi Ray Apple and Cardinal George Pell, have both seen the film.

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: I thought it's a beautiful piece of work. Deeply moving for me as a believer, very confronting, very violent.TRACY BOWDEN: Rabbi, would you use the word 'beautiful'?


In fact, I was so sorry that I went, that, with all the violence I really would have walked out before the end if I had had the guts to do it.

I felt that the violence in some ways obscured the message.

TRACY BOWDEN: Certainly, some of the first members of the public to see the 'The Passion of the Christ' have been deeply affected.

WOMAN: I don't know anyone who could sit through that and not feel some emotion, whether they cried or squirmed in their seat, or had to turn away, because it was very graphic.

WOMAN 2: When you are watching it, it's sickening, it's very emotionally difficult.

MAN: I'd almost walked out about halfway through it, and it was just really challenging.

STEPHEN CRITTENDEN: I think this is Mad Max for Christians.

This is Mel Gibson catering to the kind of -- his sense of the ruling aesthetic at the moment, which is violent.

And I think by overemphasising the violence, by overemphasising the violence to the degree that he has, he's lost the spirituality in the story, he's lot the great sort of human dramatic moments.

TRACY BOWDEN: Could it have been done with less violence, Cardinal Pell?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: I think the point of the film, the point of the Passion narratives, is precisely Jesus's reactions to the violence, how he takes it, what message he gives out despite the suffering that he has received.That's the point of the Passion.

RABBI RAYMOND APPLE: I would have much preferred that there would have been a consistent positive message without the need for all the beatings and the scourgings and so on and so forth.

TRACY BOWDEN: A key criticism is that the film depicts Jews, all Jews, as the villains, responsible for the death of Christ, and that this will fuel anti-Semitism.

RABBI RAYMOND APPLE: One gets the impression that there was a vast mob, presumably all to be regarded as Jewish, who were baying for his blood and insisting on him being crucified when his followers, as well as his detractors, were Jewish.

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: Whenever we see a film or read a book, when there is a villain and the villain has a crowd of supporters, we don't move on automatically and stereotype the whole race because of the errors of judgment of that leader and the crowd.
So there's nothing in the film to justify anti-Semitism.

TRACY BOWDEN: The Passion of the Christ has certainly focused attention on the story of the crucifixion, and is perhaps the best publicity Christianity has had in a long time.

But to what end?

STEPHEN CRITTENDEN: This is a question I'd want to ask -- whether the churches and the church leaders have, perhaps, put their critical faculties to one side, because they're so keen on what this might bring, and they're less sort of critical about where this story and the way it's being told might be taking us.

And my feeling is that it may well be in a backward direction.

TRACY BOWDEN: Is the Church, in some way, grateful that Mel Gibson has put the Bible back in the headlines, if you like?

CARDINAL GEORGE PELL: I am personally.
But I'd imagine there might be a few in the Church who don't like the film or are affronted by the film.

But I'm delighted that this film is producing such a discussion of Christ, what is his true message, and what is the significance of his life and death.

RABBI RAYMOND APPLE: I cannot really advocate that people should go and see it.

Nonetheless, it does make its contribution towards religious discussion and, in some cases, it may well open people's eyes to teachings which have a very significant place in the whole marketplace of human ideas.

TRACY BOWDEN: After all the controversy, the success or otherwise of Mel Gibson's Passion is now in the lap of the gods.

----- Original Message -----
From: g87
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2012 10:00 AM

Dear Cardinal Pell,
I refer to last night's ABC TV programme Q and A.
It could be postulated that you won against the hapless Richard Dawkins - who 'lost it' many times.
Your writer will leave detailed analysis for another day - save to point out that you failed to persue Dawkins on his 'Million monkeys' pet theory - easily debunkable in spite of the product of most google searches seemingly supporting this idiocy.
It required a bit more research- you are bright enough to have bothered...
Kindly write me however:  how you could have said during the programmew that:
''No people have suffered in history as much as the German people.''
Tell me how you could have said this?
Then when you were confronted with a very basic synopsis of the Jews and the ultimate horror of the holocaust by comperer Tony Jones - your reply was :
''Yes - the Jews too''
How could you claim that there was any [even] oblique / rational / fair /. reasonable / non - obscene / [sick!!!] comparison between the suffering of what could be reasonably described as Hitler's Willing Executioners -  [tile of Goldhagen's great book] and either the bombing of Berlin, Alsace and Lorraine -  and the murder of 6 million of my people?
I tell you Cardinal - in honour of my toddler 4 year old gorgeous aunt - murdered by those 'suffering' German  Nazis - I tell you that I am flabergasted by your deliberate willfull blindness.
She would be only 7 years older than my person, Cardinal.
My mother has dementia, Cardinal - mercifully she no longer constantly talks about her little sister Veronka!!
Can you find someone in your Church agreeing with you???!
Any of them dare to confront my mother who would tell them a thing or 6 million!
In spite of her dementia.
But it [you] were worse than that, Cardinal.
You were given a chance to apologize by Tony Jones - and you failed to do so! You could have claimed a 'senior moment'.
Indeed - you defacto, essentially repeated it!
Shame on you!
No chance of claiming that you 'forgot'.
Why - I recall that the Catholic Church has apologized for what they did to the Jews.
As Church dogma.
Didactically taught in your new Testament, non?
And with official church blessing!
In spite of that - the Pope apologized: resurrect your name by doing so as well.
This is your chance to apologize and avoid getting into bed with that Nazi acolytes like  Mel Gibson in future: it is not Church policy to demonize Jews anymore, Cardinal!!!

I await your response.

Yours Faithfully

Geoff Seidner
13 Alston Grove
East St Kilda 3183
03 9525 9299

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